Wednesday, September 03, 2025

Eugenics raises it's evil head

 One of the most disturbing things about the British establishment is how they quickly demonized the tiny 14 year old who dared to defend herself.

This video is from a Venezuelan refugee by the way.


....

what people don't realize is that the establishment looks down on the lower classes in the UK: Indeed, the deep background of this is a huge and uncovered story of thousands of girls, mainly but not all white, who were groomed as prostitutes by local rape gangs.

IF you thought the Epstein scandal was bad, well this one is Epstein times 100

the history of the establishment ignores they had a long history of support for eugenics: Mainly against their Irish immigrants but also the lower classes of the slums.

...

the shame in the UK is that now the Labour party who traditionally was founded to defend the working class, is echoing the same memes as their masters.

Eugenics was also popular among the upper crust in the USA: in Buck Vs Bell, the Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes defended her sterilization by saying: “Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”

I post this for several reasons.

One: There are a lot of posts on the internet against migrants: some on conservative sites are well known trolls, but there is enough resentment by some of us who lost benefits because of negative affirmative action (which was to correct the very real limitation of rights for minorities up to the 1960. Heck, my medical sch ol had quotas limiting women, Jews, and blacks when I attended in the sixties, and so when civil right and affirmative action came, I lost my scholarship so that the money could fund scholarships for black students...Luckily I got a loan and finished medical school, but you see the problem).

Most of the social media in the USA defend the girl, however. 

the Right/Maga/blue collar workers see in this girl one of their own.

And the Democrats see her as similar to the illegal migrants challenging the cops trying to arrest them.

and of course, both sides see a young girl willing to defend her sister against a potential rapist with a weapon as something a good Yankee would do. Except a Yankee would use a gun of course.

When Americans read about the rape gangs that got away with exploiting young girls, they see this as the   equivalent of the migrant women and children trafficked for sex by criminal gangs, but overlooked by a lazy government that looked the other way 

Sigh.


Saturday, August 30, 2025

Ridiculing prayer

 So when innocents are killed, and we turn to prayer for their families, the clueless take the time to ridicule believers. The problem? They seem clueless about how belief in a higher power works.

So the very mild Bishop Barron took it to himself to correct them: NYPost:


Minnesota Bishop Robert Barron sharply criticized Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey for dismissing calls for prayer following Wednesday’s deadly Catholic school shooting, calling the mayor’s remarks “completely asinine.”

“Catholics don’t think that prayer magically protects them from all suffering. After all, Jesus prayed fervently from the cross on which he was dying,” Barron told Fox News Digital.

Barron, an influential Catholic leader who leads the Diocese of Winona-Rochester, argued that critics misunderstand the role of prayer....

“Prayer is the raising of the mind and heart to God, which strikes me as altogether appropriate precisely at times of great pain,” he said. “And prayer by no means stands in contrast to decisive moral action. Martin Luther King was a man of deep prayer, who also effected a social revolution in our country. This is not an either/or proposition.”

“We know that God is all-good and all-powerful, and yet we also know that there are wicked people in the world who do terrible things. And so we must say that the just and merciful God permits some evils so as to bring about a good that we might not be able immediately to see. God is faithful in his love, but the ways of his providence are often inscrutable to us. We also know that, in Jesus, God journeyed all the way to the bottom of our suffering, accepting, as St. Paul said, ‘even death, death on a cross.’ We cannot always understand why God permits evil, but we know for sure that he accompanies us in our suffering,” he said.,,

 

Friday, August 29, 2025

China's new aim: start stealing Luzon's islands

 

not only are they trying to grab traditional Phiippine fishing areas, they are now trying to steal the islands that are off the north coast of Luzon, that have been part of the Philippines since the time of the Spaniards.

The clue to why: This is another maritime chokepoint. The Chinese have militarized their artificial islands in the West Philippine sea, so could easily block shipping here, but if they steal the islands, they could more easily block ship traffic 



(and the internet cables that go through the area.)  



Hmm... maybe this is why all those military age men (4000 according to this artice) are posing as students studying at colleges in northern Luzon.

How to get to space orbit

 Frazer Cain has an interview with a scientist about using a sky hook vs a space elevator vs cheap reusable rockets.


that is a bit technical. But a cartoon version can be found here

and here

....

I first ran across the space elevator concept in Heinlein's R rated space chick spy  book Friday  

Thursday, August 28, 2025

Stuff from my medical blog

 Dr Campbell, who I usually agree with, has a post cynically evaluating the UK plan for the next epidemic/mass casulaty disease. Given the over reaction to covid, I see his point, but you know, diseaters do happen, so on my post I link to a lot of military manuals with plans about such disasters.

-----------------------

Childbirth in Heian period Japan.  Linfamý's video and some of my comments about death in childbirth in lady's literature of the time.


a related text discusses yoghurt and small pox in that era in Japan 500 to 1100 AD

The Yogurt was used as a medicine and introduced by Buddhist monks who used it in rituals (Buddhism was originally from India) but apparently it's use disappeared as Buddhism evolved. 

As for smallpox: It killed huge numbers until it became endemic and afterward mainly killed children.

Treated with colour red.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

the problem of cytokine storm. This, not pneumonia, killed people with covid. Could monoclonal antibodies stop it? Link to article only

.................

So why are Karens so ugly?

I believe the cartoon is by Roald Dahl
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

frankenbunnies.

an ugly infection causes wartlike growths on innocent bunnies

,,,,

the problems of diagnosing death, mainly a video from EWTN

...

THis preveious post has a longer discussion of the problem that RFKJr is allowing to be discussed

,,,,

video on the sex change hoax

...

does Ivermectin lower the malaria rate? A study in Kenya suggests maybe

,,,,

The WHO Treaty to take over the world. includes a video by Dr. C and a discussion

School shootings: Lots of hot air and missing the point.

 The latest school shooting against a Catholic school has generated the usual knee jerk analyses, most of which miss the point.

The problem is depression and self hatred. 

In the one school shooting that happened where I had once worked, it was anger because of abuse by his parents: and the first ones he shot were his grandfather, before shooting up a school that he didn't attend (he was on home classes). And where did he get his guns? His grandfather was a policeman. 

In this latest shooting of Catholic school students,  it was a trans person. 

Some people feel they should belong to the opposite sex, but often this feeling is transient, and the others often are gay. Most are harmless and their families and neighbors here in the Philppines just shrug and accept them, just like second wives are accepted.

However the trans lobby is making changing gender a social contagion: Often the motivation for such transitions is because a counseler pushed it as the cure all for the depression and anger. We see this also with people seeking plastic surgery: sometimes they just want to change their appearance etc. but some see it as a cure all for their inner depression/self hatred.

The problem: if you don't recognize this, there is a danger of increased depression and it's mirror image: Anger and acting out against a symbol you see as causing your problem.

The internet makes this worse: So the Red Lake shooter didn't want to be angry against his abusive parents, but the internet filled him with white supremicist (!) hate ideas so he could blame his school and those who tried to help him.

So in this Minnesota case, I also suspect that when his transition didn't soolve his psychiatric problems,   well he only had to go to the internet to find suggestions that his anger was justified against an innocent third party: parents, or in this case, a church.

Psychiatrists are supposed to check for thoughts of anger/depression/suicidal plans and homicidal plans when they monitor people on SSRIs being treated for depression. Was this done? 

SSRIs decrease suicide and depression but when the anger of depression no longer is aimed inward, the anger can become acting out. Angry outbursts   are especially dangerous if the person is bipolar and gets manic symptoms.

And hormones also affect mood: Something no one wants to discuss.

Finally, the ability to get guns is a problem but in Minnesota they have gun control. Were his guns legal? 

But didn't the parent monitor his guns? And why didn't she confiscate the guns? 

When my teenage adopted son was acting out, I confiscated his hunting rifles, but he insisted I give them back since he had bought them with his own money. So I gave them back, minus the firing pin. No, I couldn't get him hospitalized, and his therapist merely affirmed that his anger against me was justified (ignoring the abuse he suffered before he was adopted).  So excuse me if I am cynical about therapy.

So why no family intervention here? Intervention by friends? Someone monitoring his social media posts (don't say this is not being done).

Finally, there is a question of security: Apparently, the same governor of Minnesota who feels schools need tampons in the boy's room denied funding for basic security for Catholic schools. 

From the NatCathReg:

Democratic Gov. Tim Walz and the state Legislature both declined to act on repeated appeals from Catholic leaders seeking the same level of protection public schools receive.


of course, it might not be cost effective to send rent a cops to every church, church school, etc.

and the active gun rights community might say: Why didn't you provide your own protection? Train teachers and let them carry weapons.

Sigh. The problem? Most civilians freeze in time of danger

So how about prevetion?

The US military has people trained to use guns to kill people, and a lot of soldiers with PTSS and other risk factors for violence.

The Modern War institute has an article here about the problem

Protecting Soldiers, Preventing Harmful Behaviors, and Boosting Combat Readiness—with Data,

Project Prevention and the the Unit Risk Forecasting Tool (URFT), which applies predictive data analytics to give leaders an additional tool to keep their soldiers ready to train and fight.

much of the prevention focuses on the problems in units, not individuals, and of course, the loss of privacy would not be allowed in the civilian sector.

But high risk criminals are often known to the local police for less serious incidents and it is almost a joke when the police admit: This person was on our radar, meaning the cops were watching him or her.

The first line of defense of course is the community and family, including the extended family, local clubs, churches and even gangs who know who of their members are out of control.

In this case, the person was high risk and should have been monitored, or at least his social media monitored and his guns confiscated.

But the cops are the last line of defense in such cases because of civil liberties and the inability to get dangerous people committed into psychiatric institutions.

Sigh. Been there, done that...Sigh.

Wednesday, August 27, 2025

Space X landing

starship's tenth test flight was a success.

The flight test began with Super Heavy successfully lifting off by igniting all 33 Raptor engines and ascending over the Gulf of America. Successful ascent was followed by a hot-staging maneuver, with Starship’s upper stage igniting its six Raptor engines to separate from Super Heavy and continue the flight to space. Following stage separation, the Super Heavy booster completed its boostback burn to put it on a course to a pre-planned splashdown zone.

Boudicca redux

the police who arrested her for carrying a knife didn't seem to notice that the guy she is threatening hasn't just shrugged and left, but is standing there taunting her and filming her.... and one wonders who posted this to Twitter/X and also who reported her to the police.

 one would hope that the backstory will get reported (was the guy a known sexual predator? a normal Paki just walking by would not have filmed it etc). And one wonders why a young girls feels she needs to carry weapons going to school. Has there been other attacks in the area?

but in the meanwhile, the incident has spawned a thousand memes at a time when migrants are invading the UK in large numbers, and the indepth report about the rape grooming gangs has been released:

the problem? The reports are not accurte because often the rape gangs were covered up, the sex was seen as consensual, and especially because the authorities did not want to increase tensions against certain (Muslim) ethnic groups. There are rumors that some authorities actually had sex with the girls, but this is not confirmed. And no one wants to notice that the grooming was associated with underage alcohol use and illicit drugs.

SIgh

more at Twitchy:

Monday, August 25, 2025

today is the day commemorating Philippine heroes

Lolo's brother fought with local guerilla groups, but as a teen he joined at the end of the war but claims he mainly only patrolled the streets. 

Urban warfare is terrible, and as in Marawi, there is no way to stop the bad guys that will please the peaceniks who insist on mercy (i.e. letting the evil ones win).

However, as Wretched (a PhilAm) notes: That was dangerous because the Japanses were revenging their defeat on civilians.


and predicts that Hamas, when faced with defeat will similarly see their captive civilians (who are Sunnits, not outsider Shiites like Hamas) will probably do the same and blame Israel

fentanyl: an open conspiracy

 Pushing alcohol to the Irish, and into the slums of London helped destroy the opposition to the British elite. Ditto Alcohol (and now drugs) openly pushed to the Native Americans in the USA.

The British opium wars ditto.

And when Maxine Waters claimed the CIA was pushing Crack into the black inner city, she was ridiculed as a conspiracy theorist.


so when China sold fentanyl and it's precursors so that it could be smuggled into the USA, no one did anything about the border.

Modern War institute of West Point has a series of videos/podcasts about what was going on from a geopolitical stand.

Part one:

Part two

Part three

Full report pdf

Publicly and officially, the PRC has made significant gestures of cooperation with the United States in meeting the opioid crisis challenge. Unofficially and illicitly, considerable evidence suggests the PRC actively supports and facilitates the flow of fentanyl into the United States. PRC officials continue to claim a narrative of fentanyl addiction as a US problem.
In an interview with China Global Television Network, an international English-language news channel based in Beijing, the deputy secretary-general of the China National Narcotics Control Commission (CNNCC) criticized the United States for its role in creating the fentanyl crisis, attributing it to “its own misuse of prescription drugs.” 
Despite criticism, CNNCC’s spokesman declared readiness to provide full support in material control, intelligence sharing, law enforcement, and combating transnational crimes. In the words of Liu Pengyu, spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington, “It is very clear that there is no fentanyl problem in China, and the fentanyl crisis in the United States is not caused by the Chinese side, and blindly blaming China cannot solve the U.S.’ own problem.”
While there is some truth to Pengyu’s statement—the United States must do more to address the problem of addiction—currently, Chinese companies, possibly with the full support or willful blindness of the PRC government, are fanning the flames of this crisis.

well, here in Asia, the main drug is meth/shabu. And the chinese have a major drug crisis going on that gets little publicity: LINK...and the data is ten years old.


 What, not recent data? Big Brother is hiding something....:  

Joe Rogan discusses: caution. Rogan likes psychodelics

So excuse me: This pope is a little bit better than his woke predecessor, but what I read is mainly that he wants to welcome the promiscuous gay community (activist communities who defend promiscuity, not those who are trying to live a normal life despite their same sex attraction), and when he pushes the global warming religion (ignoring that the green initiatives mean poor people should continue living their poverty drive "traditional" lifestyle) maybe he stop a minute and remember he is supposed to be preaching the gospel: And preach an upright moral lifestyle that would condemn corruption and the religion of getting high on drugs, which used to be part of religion.

Hey Leo: look around and see the millions whose lives are being disrupted by drugs and the drug trade and stop pretending to ignore the evil choices behind this activity.

Sigh. We could use a man like John Wesley again...

Nah. Not woke enough.

Look Gaza Squirrel 

 

Saturday, August 23, 2025

Destroying the family in Lilo and Stitch

 I watched the live remake of Lilo and Stitch, and it was okay: however I missed the music (where were the Elvis tunes?) and although there were lots of chase scenes and scenes of Stitch destroying things, there were few scenes showing how Lilo bonded with Stitch by playing with him.

But the backstory was the problems of her older sister trying to keep the family together and how child protection agency types kept recommending that she give up custody, send her sister to unknown foster parents: essentially breaking the only family tie that a traumatized Lilo has that is giving her some stability to her life.

So anyway, the movie was okay. Until the end.

All through the movie the theme was family means not letting anyone behind (and Stitch was adopted as part of that family). 

And indeed in the original cartoon, the ending the family remains intact:

The original animated film grants Lilo’s family a happy-ever-after, ending with Nani, Lilo and Stitch finding peace together, bolstered by a new support system of aliens and humans.

 In the new movie, at the end, after insisting that family means never leaving anyone behind, the older sister promptly says good bye to Lilo attend college in the mainland, leaving her sister to the mercy of the foster care system, with a new character, not related nor known to Lilo.

Wait: Did I misremember the original ending?

Apparently not, as this Forbes article notes:

Nani is no longer taking care of her sister. Given that the original film (and the remake) very much emphasizes the importance of keeping families together with the phrase “no one gets left behind,” this struck many viewers as a cold attempt at a happy ending.

fans pointed out that there was something dark about Nani’s future career being placed above her care of Lilo, a strangely cold ending with a glossy, “girlboss” spin.

,,,,

Now, I live in the Philippines, and it is common here for people to sacrifice their ambitions for the good of the family: many of our OFW do so to support the family they left behind.

and even in the USA, there are 40 million caregivers who sacrifice time and often have to change or limit their jobs to help their relaives (and sometimes friends)

Such sacrifices should be admired: 

Ironically,  as some in the Forbes article point out, the sister could have taken the same college training locally with scholarships for the indigenous, and probably arrange grants/welfare payments/loans so she could bring her sister with her, the ending is especially cold hearted.

In other words, the woke ending not only ignores the lessons of the original story, that one never leaves one's family behind, but ignores the cultural lessons that could be learned from Polynesian culture, about the importance of family ties.


 I should add: Foster care is often needed to protect children: however, newer policies have been instituted so that these children can stay with family members where their family ties and cultural background is protected, even if the family is not as rich as the usually white social workers prefer.

Friday, August 22, 2025

signal one

 a tropical depressin is beinging in heavy rain.

Hope the newly replanted rice survive this.


Thursday, August 21, 2025

Drones: cheap and dangerous


Wonder why the war in the Ukraine has lasted so long? Experts estimated that the Ukraine would last one month, and the west dithered in giving help, but ironically Elon Musk sending in Starlink for ommunications was a game changer.

But another game changer was that the Ukraine got creative in drone warfare.


,,,

,,,

Clemson has a textbook on line. But of course text books tend to be a year or two behind the time.

StrategyPage has a couple of articles with more details. I mainly post these to read later at my leisure.

MARINES: USMC Adopts Drone Technology

WINNING: Consequences of Ukrainian Drone Tactics

SPECIAL OPERATIONS: Ukrainian Operation Spider Web Surprises 

SPECIAL OPERATIONS: Ukrainian Record Setting Naval Drones... 

this last one is important for the Philippines since there are reports of naval drones being used in the West Philippine sea.

,,,,,,,

Tuesday, August 19, 2025

why are churches ignoring the moral problem of using drugs?

 

....

so one out of five people dying of overdoses probably took illicit drugs to self medicate the symptoms of their mental illness.

I have seen this and understand it.

But what is missing here: Why do four out of five people who overdose take such drugs?  



Sunday, August 17, 2025

stop murdering people and release the hostages

 no, not in Gaza.

In Haiti 

from the Miami Herald:

A 3-year-old toddler and seven adults, including a longtime missionary, who were kidnapped in the early morning Sunday in Haiti remain in the hands of armed gangs.
The kidnapping occurred after a security breach at the Saint Hélène Orphanage in Kenscoff in the hills above gang-ridden Port-au-Prince....
At least 1,520 people were killed between April and June, the U.N. said, and at least 609 others were injured in armed violence, primarily in the Port-au-Prince metropolitan area, followed by Artibonite and center regions.
In addition, there were at least 185 kidnappings and 628 victims of sexual violence. The U.N. report also noted that at least 410 residences and other buildings, including six schools, health centers and local nongovernmental organizations were ransacked, burned or destroyed by gangs during the period.


Trump is trying to stop the ability of Haitian refugees to stay in the USA, but no one wants to say outloud that there is a fear that some of these refugees will allow these gangs to us fake refugee status to commit crimes in the USA.

HRW reprints an editorial from the LATimes pointing out the problem. 

Trump administration insists things are safer now so they can go home right away, but the courts have put this on hold for a couple months.

So in effect, the only reason the MSM/Left?Pope is noticing the problem is because of Trump saying he is going to send people back.

But this is not a new problem: Haiti has been a basket case for years. Wikipedia has an article on the 1991 refugee crisis from that country and another article on the US Marines trying to bring peace there in 1915.

Things got worse after the 2010 earthquake.

Personally I think that this group, unlike Mexicans and South American illegal migrants, are really in need for asylum. 

But this is ignored because these refugees are black, uneducated, and don't speak English... then there is the fear of disease: HIV and other infectious diseases are a danger when you don't screen immigrants legal or spontaneous.

to make things worse: Haitians speak a dialect of French, and few know that language.

This site has resources for medical personnel and other to help them communicate with patients.


 

Friday, August 15, 2025

the Jesuits did it

 Yes. I am being sarcastic.

At a time when the JFK files are inflaming every nutcase conspiracy theory, maybe looking into older conspiracy theories should be seen and put into contrast to today's news.

First, the background of the assasination is discussed here:


...

So where do the Jesuits come into the plot with an infamous conspiracy theory?

 it starts with the dirty little secret that Catholics are disliked and outsiders in the USA back then, and immigrants (many of whom were Irish Catholics) were greatly disliked. 

This should give one pause, since there are parallels in today's world, where immigrants and Muslims are outsiders and greatly disliked.

 and then there is this: John Wilkes Booth was a Catholic convert, many of those involved had Catholic links, and Mary Suratt's son escaped with the help of Canadian Catholics.

more from NatCathRegister:

all the conspirators met at the boarding house owned by Mary Surratt. Mary Jenkins Surratt was a Catholic, having converted before her marriage to John Surratt in 1840. Everyone who had rooms in her house was a Catholic. Her son John, Jr.—who escaped capture and trial for a time by seeking sanctuary in a Montreal church rectory and then as a Papal Zouave—was a Catholic...  Another accomplice, David Herold, had studied at Catholic colleges including Georgetown. Dr. Samuel Mudd, who set Booth’s broken leg, was a Catholic.  

So far we only have a bunch of confederate sympathizers who happen to be Catholic. 

 so where do the Jesuits come into this?

fast forward to Charles Chiniquy's theory of Lincoln's Assassination. Why would the Jesuits do such a thing? Because Lincoln had once been hired by him as a lawyer to defend him against libel charges.

duh. 

Does one sort of wonder at the grandiosity of a person making such a claim? Why would Jesuits do this to revenge a guy who was in trouble not just with the law but with his bishop, and who later made a living writing Anti Catholic propaganda?

Nope that doesn't make sense... But hey conspiracy theorists don't have to make sense: they just cherry pick some details and weave the story from one sided minor details to confirm their prejudices.

And back then, lot of folks back then automatically believed Catholics were bad in the same way that there are lots of people out there who hate Muslims or immigrants with brown skin, not for their deeds but because a small minority of them commit crimes.

But like in today's world, conspiracy theory theorists can get rich off by pushing their ideas.

Indeed, Chiniquy made a good living being a professional anti Catholic at a time when anti (Irish Catholic) immigration feelings were high, and his paranoid fantasies continue to be recycled by professional Anti Catholic Jack Chick.

Irish Central has an article about the anti Irish/anti Catholic hysteria at that time helped the public assume Mary Surrat was guilty:

backstory: Her silence enabled her son, who was involved in earlier plots but not in this one, escape.

so a Catholic conspiracy, or just a loving mother willing to do so that her son escape a lynch mob mentality of the courts?


 Robert Redford has a movie about it:

Hong Kong show trial

Democracy advocate Jimmy Lai's show trial is nearing it's end:

here is the report on EWTN (Catholic network)

.....

this video is six months old, but gives the background

Wednesday, August 13, 2025

The forgotten massacres of World War II

 Urban fighting is one of the most dangerous fight in a war. Buildings can hid snipers, boobytraps, etc. but as soldiers go house to house, the attacking soldiers need to watch out for innocent civilians hiding for safety in these buildlings.

Ah, but what do you do when the departing soldiers deliberately kill these civilians? That is what happened in Manila.

 


After the Japanese left, they headed north to the mountains to hide, and later battles in rural jungles was terrible but not given a lot of publicity.

The Japanese soldiers, often starving, would attack villages for food, killing everyone. If the soldiers tried peacefully to ask for food, villagers, knowing about the murders in other villages, often would given them poisoned food.

Sigh.

My husband's brother and cousin were guerillas who hid in the mountains and helped the American armies.

My husband was still a young teen, but at the end of the war, his brother recruited him and other teens to patrol the towns to keep people safe.

I post this to remind people two things: One: that a similar house to house battle would have happened if the Allies had to invade Japan, hence the willingness of President Truman, who after all was a battle veteran of World War I to drop the atomic bomb. And two: this was genocide. And the genocides of the Japanese against civilians is often left out of the history books.

Going Home: Dvorak's muscial salute to America

Dvorak's New World Symphony remains popular, but this sad excerpt is now played (and sung) as the hymn Going Home: 


the sad melody had lyrics put to it, and is often played or sung at funerals: LINK

 you might remember it being played at Regan's Funeral but most famously in the funeral scene from A Clear and Present Danger.

here is the melody without the singing:

.

..

The Symphony has many musical influences:  this NPR article points out how it is influenced by Black Spirituals and American folk songs.

(And don't forget to donate to NPR: I may object to them getting tax dollars due to their obvious bias, but I do support their being able to articulate a liberal point of view without the vehemence of certain US Cable channels.)

and here is the Wikipedia summary:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_(Dvořák)

So anyway, if you don't want to check out the complicated discussion in those links, here is an easy summary for your enjoyment:


...

amd the full symphony is here: and the Largo I cited above is at 12 minutes.